Episode 6 / Jacqui Gifford
How Can You Change The World Through Travel? Jacqui Gifford On Sustainability & Her Impact as Editor in Chief of Travel+Leisure
What You'll Learn in This Episode:
Jacqui’s no-nonsense leadership philosophy that led Travel+Leisure through a global pandemic
How the travel industry’s focus on sustainability can impact future generations
Why mothering in fast-paced careers like travel and media is so darn hard
Techniques to master communication in an era of overwhelming digital correspondence
That wellness travel is here to stay – and so is recognizing the limits of your life
Jacqui Gifford, Travel and Leisure's editor in chief, reveals her approach to effective leadership, the evolving trends in travel, and the broader implications of sustainability on the world at large. From insights into maintaining a harmonious work-life balance to tackling the pervasive challenges that women often encounter in modern workplaces, this discussion delves into themes that resonate with many professionals today. Learn more about Jacqui’s journey of balancing motherhood in the ever on-the-go travel industry, and the underlying thread of optimism and resilience that has defined her career journey, especially during the travel industry's most trying times.
About Jacqui Gifford
As the editor-in-chief of Travel + Leisure, Jacqui Gifford is always on the next plane. She constantly scouts for new hotels, shops, and restaurants to give readers the latest news and trends, and frequently appears as an expert guest on television networks, including NBC, CBS, ABC, CNBC, and MSNBC. A graduate of Princeton University with a bachelor's degree in English, Jacqui was born in Japan and raised in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She has traveled the world extensively and lives in New York City with her husband and son. Her passions include sustainability, luxury, wellness, multigenerational travel, and more.
“We can take some of the learnings from travel and get people to care a little bit more and invest a little bit more. Show them the benefits and show them the beauty of these places, and convince them that giving back is going to help them, help the environment, and preserve it for another generation.”
Jacqui Gifford
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Lindsey Epperly [00:00:02]:
Awesome. Thanks for being here today, Jackie. I am so excited to interview you.
Jacqui Gifford [00:00:06]:
Oh, thank you for having me.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:08]:
So I think we were just chatting a little bit about the first time that I was able to meet you a couple of years ago. I think it was at Travel week. And I remember hearing so much about you ahead of time, you know, this wonderful, wonderful editor of travel and leisure. And what struck me in meeting you in person was you do hold this timelessness to you, but you have this wonderful, modern take on things. And I feel that resonates with your writing, with the way you lead travel and leisure. And I feel like you've got such a big, beautiful role there. This has to all be intentional, right? Like the way that you are able to present yourself, to kind of hold that tension between the timelessness of what they've built and the modern take on travel. What does that look like for you? How did that role evolve?
Jacqui Gifford [00:00:49]:
Wow. Well, thank you. I feel very honored to be described in that way. I think that the thing that I love, first of all, about travel leisure is we're 52 years young, I should say. And I looked back when we had our 50th anniversary. It was August of 2021. We did a huge issue on it, and I looked back at the history of the brand and some of the photographers we've worked with. A lot of people don't realize that slim Aarons shot for travel and leisure in the 70s, some of his most iconic images, some of the writers we've worked with, Jan Morris, I could go on and on.
Jacqui Gifford [00:01:22]:
Paul Thoreau. The best thing about TnL is we work with quality, quality journalism. That's always been the bedrock of the brand. But journalism has evolved. And I look at travel and leisure, and it started as a magazine, obviously. We have a website, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok. We have podcasts, and I love all of it. And I think that that's the best part of where we are today.
Jacqui Gifford [00:01:48]:
We're not afraid to take chances and try new things. So when you say, I have this timelessness, to me, I guess, which is interesting, I think I love the classic side of travel, the joys of travel. But also we have to modernize, we have to think big, we have to change. And we have some followers now on TikTok who maybe don't read the magazine, and that's fine. I want everybody to be on everything that's pie in the sky. But you have to realize that the consumer has changed and you have to meet them where they are.
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:19]:
Yeah, absolutely. What did your journey look like in getting to the position as editor in chief?
Jacqui Gifford [00:02:24]:
So I've been in journalism and magazines my whole career, and I don't think it wasn't necessarily a dream of mine. When you're little and you think of all the things you want to do, I think for a hot minute I wanted to be a lawyer, and I did an internship, and it was not for me. But I've always loved reading. I've always loved writing. And when I was graduating from school, I was lucky enough to have a professor who just took me aside and said, what are you going to do with your life? And I graduated a weird time. It was just after 911, and so the job market was really tough. A lot of people. I went to Princeton, moved to New York right after just because of its proximity.
Jacqui Gifford [00:03:03]:
But it was a strange time for the city, which I'll get back to. I'll talk about that later because I've lived through Covid here, and that was another strange time for us.
Lindsey Epperly [00:03:10]:
But lots of questions for you.
Jacqui Gifford [00:03:12]:
Lots of questions about that. But when I moved here, I just so happened to get a job at Vanity Fair, which is part of Connie Nast. And I started two weeks after graduating. I was an assistant in the research department. I started fact checking, and I had two great bosses when I worked there. I was there for about three years, and I just fell in love with journalism. The topic, I think, again, if you're a big reader and writer, it's something that I don't want to say. None of it's easy, but it's something that you gravitate to and it's a passion.
Jacqui Gifford [00:03:42]:
And then I've bounced around various outlets, but I have actually been at travel leisure. It was ten years in June and now five years as editor in chief. So I've been here the longest than I've been in any other place in my career. And we've had some crazy times, a crazy ride. But as I said earlier, the brand keeps changing, which is why I think I've stayed.
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:05]:
Yeah, you have had an incredibly crazy few years, I would imagine. And that was going to be one of my questions for you, too, because you've managed to now lead this company through the travel industry's greatest crisis, obviously the world, one of the greatest cris in the world. But the travel industry specifically was hit so hard by the pandemic. And I am so curious if you could share a little bit about what you learned as a leader during that time.
Jacqui Gifford [00:04:28]:
That is, I think, something I didn't know I had it in myself, and I should say this was a collective effort. When we look back at all the work, we never stopped publishing the magazine. The site never went dark. We just kept going. And I think there was a cost that came with that because people were really tired. It was a confusing time. But I will say I feel like I can do a lot. I learned a lot about myself.
Jacqui Gifford [00:04:58]:
I learned a lot about resilience. I learned a lot about empathy. I learned a lot about New York City and why I live here and what I love about it. I was working at home. We all moved to work from home in the middle of March. And I remember some of the last travel events I went to. There was an Amon event, an Amon party I hosted, a talk for a safari outfitter, roar Africa, that we work with quite closely. And you knew something was happening, but you weren't quite sure exactly what.
Jacqui Gifford [00:05:28]:
And then the news kept getting worse, and we had travel restrictions here. And then all of a sudden, I just remember being at home, and my husband's in the news business, so it just was a strange time. All that's to say, we are somewhat out of it. There are still things we're dealing with, I think, emotionally, just organizationally. Everybody works differently now. But I feel ultimately, like, by telling stories, travel stories, by not giving up on the dream of travel. There are some people who said to me, are people ever going to travel again? And I read a great book called the great Mortality by John Kelly that I think I read it in the spring of 2020. It was a book I'd had at home, and I just picked it up again.
Jacqui Gifford [00:06:12]:
It's about the plague. And I read it, and it sort of gave me this overarching view of humanity, what happens during pandemics. But also the people that were like, are people ever going to go to a restaurant again? I'm like, let's be clear about something. Restaurants and bars and hotels have existed for a very long time. I think we'll be fine. It kind of gave me this feeling of, I don't want to say optimism, because it was a very sad book, but the idea that this, too, shall pass. So it was just about biting our time and waiting, and everyone's seen it. The demand for travel is still at an all time high.
Jacqui Gifford [00:06:51]:
Still going into the year 2024, it is still at an all time high.
Lindsey Epperly [00:06:57]:
I feel that completely. And as a fellow leader of a travel company during that time, you just hit the nail on the head. It was like you had to maintain this kind of understood optimism. Right. That it was informed optimism. There is hope, but there is also the reality. And having to constantly hold those two things in balance. I know exactly what you mean there.
Jacqui Gifford [00:07:18]:
Yeah. I mean, look, at the end of the day, our industry, it's still not fully recovered. If you look at staffing, just hiring back, we were the hardest hit by far. That in the arts, I should say. And Broadway here in New York, it's still not back to what it was. It's going to take time. And people, their expectations are high. They want everything to be perfect.
Jacqui Gifford [00:07:43]:
The consumer is more demanding. People's attention spans are shorter. They feel fractured in a way that I don't think they were like in 2019. But in terms of just the overall optimism that's around travel and the overall demand for it, I think as an industry, we still undersell ourselves. I think we need to think a little bit bigger. And the idea that all people want to do right now is travel and escape from something, from their work, their personal. We need to do a better job of articulating how important we are to the world economically and as a force. As a force for good.
Lindsey Epperly [00:08:27]:
Yeah, I feel like you are doing that in your position at travel leisure.
Jacqui Gifford [00:08:30]:
I try. I mean, look, at the end of the day, the best part about this job is you have a platform and you can articulate a message. I've been very clear and bullish on the idea of sustainability. A lot of people just don't want to talk about it whatsoever. They feel it is consumers don't care. And I'm happy to disagree with people on that. I think that consumers do care and I have this platform to share that message and I will continue to do so until I leave.
Lindsey Epperly [00:09:03]:
Yeah, I think you are doing. I follow along with this because I believe in that as well. And I think that it is the future, not just of the industry, obviously, of our planet. And it's so interesting you had posted when you announced that you are the co chair for the World Economic Forum for the Global Futures Council on Sustainability. Right. Congratulations on that.
Jacqui Gifford [00:09:22]:
Thank you.
Lindsey Epperly [00:09:22]:
But it was interesting when you posted that you shared a photo of your son, of you and your son, and you said, I guess a picture of Bobby is as good as any to make this announcement. And it reminded me at our recent Jetset summit, we had a panel on sustainability where Don Martenson, with natural habitat adventures spoke. And he said, if you don't care about sustainability for your clients, care about it for your clients children. And that linked what you were sharing with here's my future. Here's our future. This is so important.
Jacqui Gifford [00:09:54]:
Yeah, I mean, look, let's do a little bit of real talk here. I remember going to the caribbean years ago and seeing healthy coral reefs. You don't see them in the same way you used to. Okay. And I'm 43, so my son has yet to see, and he's very well traveled, very fortunate. I can honestly say. I don't think he's seen a healthy coral reef system. We've done some amazing excursions, trips, safaris, all of that, but our oceans, they're in trouble.
Jacqui Gifford [00:10:32]:
And people don't want to confront some of these realities because I think the messaging that we have to get better at, it doesn't mean, I think that people think, okay, you're talking about sustainability. You don't want people to travel at all. That's not the case at all. Because actually, I think overwhelming the travel industry is an overwhelming positive. What I'm saying is we can take some of the learnings from travel and get people to care a little bit more and invest a little bit more, show them the benefits and show them the beauty of these places and convince them that giving back is going to help them and to help the environment and preserve it for another generation. So I would love to show every time we take a trip, when I show my son wildlife, some sort of, actually, I should say galapagos, he did. But that's very different from that's a national park. That is a really hard to get to destination in the grand scheme of things.
Jacqui Gifford [00:11:36]:
I'm talking about just like a regular trip to a resort. And I say regular, meaning it's not a rigorous trip. You could go offshore and snorkel and see healthy reefs. And that kind of experience is dying, frankly. So I believe the more trips you do, the better informed you are. You're a better global citizen, and hopefully you want to actually give back to the planet.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:02]:
Yeah, we talk about that a lot, about our mission of being gracious travel industry citizens, but that extends to creating travelers who are, you just said it, global citizens. Gracious global citizens. And what that means. It means education. And you're doing such a beautiful job of putting out great content around that. And I'm actually, in the show notes, going to link to your recent article that you wrote for the World Economic Forum about sustainability. I'd love to just kind of camp out there for a minute when it comes to what listeners right now can do and can understand what's a good first step. If people are new to this concept, because this podcast goes out to, well, more than just the travel industry.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:37]:
So these are the travelers, right? These are the individuals that are making an impact on the planet. What can they.
Jacqui Gifford [00:12:45]:
Mean? Okay, so just like basic stuff. First of, I'll talk about travel Nasia for just 1 minute. We have a franchise called Global Vision Awards. We do it every year. It comes out in the April issue on March on the site tied to around Earth day, shall we say. And it just champions people who are doing good work. And you can certainly look to that and see some of the providers and people and places that we've honored over time. It's know organizations ranging from six census hotels and resorts to african parks to a coral reef regeneration program in the Bahamas.
Jacqui Gifford [00:13:27]:
So there's a whole host of people that we have vetted, honored, nominated. I would say when you're traveling you can certainly do offset things of that sort. And people go back and forth of whether or not you're ticking a box by doing that. I myself sometimes am conflicted about it. But there are certain companies, whether it's g adventures or there are certain intrepid travel that have actually done the tracing. So you can have a better understanding of what you're doing and what the emissions are and what you potentially, or how potentially you can offset them. But I want to talk about six senses for a little bit. I think they're such a great brand in terms of how they've really been focused on eliminating plastics, reinvesting in the local community, adaptive reuse.
Jacqui Gifford [00:14:19]:
Looking at sort of. You're looking at the carbon footprint of something. You should also look at the carbon footprint of construction adapt and thinking about the footprint of the building itself. And they do it in a way that doesn't feel preachy. So you never go to a six senses and feel like it's like lesser than and you're getting somehow a watered down experience. And in fact, I think it's above and beyond. But another thing I think noticed when I've stayed and traveled with uniworld cruises, they're really fanatical about food and food waste in a good way because actually food waste, I'm sure you're aware, contributes as a bigger source of emissions than actually air travel. And a lot of people don't know that.
Jacqui Gifford [00:15:02]:
And I think there's this tendency to shame the airlines or just sort of think that by getting on a plane you're doing something bad. The reality is the amount of food that gets thrown in the trash that is not consumed or not composted, it's heartbreaking, right? So I think look at how you eat and how you consume when you travel and think about, frankly, I know it sounds lame, but go to a hotel's website and see, look at the policies that they're talking about. Do they actually even put some of that stuff at the forefront of their mission if they're not? Well, can you ask your travel advisor, what is this company doing? At least try and see if there's anything. And if there's nothing, then do you want to really support that?
Lindsey Epperly [00:15:51]:
Right. I totally agree. I think on the travel advisor side, it's such a beneficial cause to be able to put in front of our travelers. Hey, if all things are equal between hotel A and hotel B, we want you to know that hotel B is working towards saving the planet. So that's probably the one you want to go with. You said this earlier, there's a debate on whether the end consumer actually cares, and we've found that they do. I think the generations that are coming into buying power especially care.
Jacqui Gifford [00:16:18]:
I think they do again, and I don't think this is as much a fault of the consumer as it actually is on us. I think there's this perception that by choosing something that's sustainable, and I put that in air quotes, it's somehow lesser than. And I think that consumers might believe that because we haven't done a good enough job educating them on. You're not sacrificing anything. It's just as good. Like, I'll give you a good example. We were just in Rwanda. It was one of the best trips we've ever taken.
Jacqui Gifford [00:16:57]:
We stayed at Wilderness Magashi camp, and Akagara is one of several national parks in Rwanda, but one that where they've reintroduced rhino lions successfully. And you can now see the big five there. It's a huge success story for the country. And Magashi opened 2019. It's eight suites. It's entirely solar powered. Okay. And let me be clear.
Jacqui Gifford [00:17:24]:
For me, the rooms are deluxe, right. They're really nice. Like, you're not sacrificing any creature comforts, but they were very clear. Like, you only have hot water a certain amount of time, a finite amount of time a day. Well, maybe some customers might find that off putting. I didn't care. It's solar powered. They're leaving a better.
Jacqui Gifford [00:17:49]:
They're off the grid, as it were, because they can't actually do anything different. And they want to preserve this beautiful, fragile environment in a respectful way. So if that means that I take a three minute hot shower as opposed to a 20. Does that really matter? But you might say if you're a travel advisor and someone's asking you, oh, yeah, well, the hot water is only on for whatever. That's not the message that needs to be articulated. The message that needs to be articulated is this camp is amazing. It's entirely solar powered, and in doing so, they've preserved x, Y and Z. And so just know you need to take a shorter shower than usual period.
Jacqui Gifford [00:18:31]:
End of story. And I don't think people are going to care.
Lindsey Epperly [00:18:33]:
Yeah, I totally agree. And I think as you're even speaking and saying all of this, echoing back to what I kind of commented at the very start of this, of how you do a great job of holding the timelessness and the modernity of the brand of travel and leisure. I think also as a traveler, there's holding that tension of the expectation of luxury, but also understanding that luxury changes. And what luxury is today is that you are able to access something for years and years and years to come. Right. We want to be able to continue accessing that, and that is a luxury to us. So it's redefining the traveler's idea of what access even is.
Jacqui Gifford [00:19:09]:
Yeah. It's like, okay, you're going to this beautiful place. It's a fragile environment. Be respectful of that environment. It's a privilege that you get to go. You pretty much have every luxury at your disposal, within reason, while you're there. You've got your wifi, you've got your x, you've got your conditioner. Okay? Yeah, exactly.
Jacqui Gifford [00:19:35]:
If you can't shower all the time, does that really matter to you? I hope it doesn't. And maybe if it does, then maybe this isn't the right environment for you. So that's the kind of education that we need to provide and do a better job of. And I think that, again, it's not about something that's lesser than, it's about educational awareness on what the whole story is. You want to make sure that this environment is there for 20, 30, 40 for our children. How many years for your kids? And so you just have to be conscious of that.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:11]:
Yeah. I appreciate you camping out on that for a bit because I love hearing other people who are passionate about it and as forward thinking and as educated as you are, and I think everyone benefits from hearing those points. I also love hearing just the personal story and the journey that would have brought you to have that kind of worldview and that perspective. And one topic I'm really curious about, because I've studied this for so long in the landscape of the travel world is that I think it's oftentimes very hard to be or to become a mother when you are in any sort of travel industry related position. Right.
Jacqui Gifford [00:20:45]:
Because. Yes, it is true. Yes. There's a variety of reasons as to why that is, but I will say this. So I have one child. I'm an only child, too.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:58]:
Me, too.
Jacqui Gifford [00:20:59]:
Oh, really? Well, there you go.
Lindsey Epperly [00:21:00]:
Only child. I have two kids now, but only child kids now.
Jacqui Gifford [00:21:03]:
But it's a club for sure. And I had him sort of latish, and, I mean, not really. I was 35, 34. So I find that when you have a job and you're running a business, when you're on the road, there is a double standard for women in general. My husband's super supportive and he's great. He's right there in the trenches with me. I think women, we hold ourselves to a higher standard, but also we're certainly asked to do a lot of.
Lindsey Epperly [00:21:45]:
Yeah.
Jacqui Gifford [00:21:46]:
And so I think that's why you probably see fewer female general managers. Although I have to give a shout out, and I haven't fully thought how I'm going to articulate this in a social media post, but Rwanda was the first country that I have been to where every single person I met, general manager, owner at a hotel, was a woman.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:07]:
Wow.
Jacqui Gifford [00:22:08]:
Five different hotels.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:10]:
Wow.
Jacqui Gifford [00:22:11]:
That's correct. Not one. Five different hotels. And 63% of their parliament is made up of women. So I think that's rare. And it's very hard for. Because of the hours, because of the demands of time, you just don't have the time to devote to being at home. But look, I think there's also a benefit to this, which is, yes, I'm gone a little bit more than some other people, but it's a wonderful job, and my son gets to benefit from the things that I do.
Jacqui Gifford [00:22:49]:
So there's always a trade off. I don't think anybody's perfectly happy with any. But in travel in general, the demands are real. They're real. It's hard to do it all. It really is.
Lindsey Epperly [00:23:04]:
I've also found, I completely agree, the expectation that where you need to be, how you need to show up, that's a certain table stakes. But I've also found just the personal tug of war that happens inside of me now is so difficult to navigate. Because prior to kids, I never had that tug of war. Right. If it was a choice between abroad and home, I'm always going to choose abroad. I never had homesickness and so now you've got this kind of dynamic of always wanting to be in two places at once.
Jacqui Gifford [00:23:34]:
I know. I think sometimes what I like to do is I had a really crazy month a few months ago, and I knew I pushed it, and so I sort of course corrected. And then we were just together for nearly two weeks. So I think you have to sort of know what that balance is. And if you feel yourself crossing the line, then to retreat for a month or so and then see how you're doing and then get back out there. The other thing, too, is you can say yes to everything. That's the other thing I realized there's so many opportunities within travel. There's always somewhere new to go.
Jacqui Gifford [00:24:19]:
There's always somebody you're going to meet. You could say yes to everything, and there is a benefit in saying yes to. I'd say yes probably 90% of the time. And then when I say no, that 10% of the time, it's like I really, truly can't do it. And there's a good reason why.
Lindsey Epperly [00:24:34]:
Totally. Well, and I know that's hyper specific to those in the travel industry, but for anyone listening, I feel like the dynamics of being a modern mother, they're challenging, and they come with this whole slew of additional workplace struggles that we have to navigate. And I think a lot of these are specific, whether you're a mother or not, they're specific to females. And I've talked a lot on this podcast about the idea of imposter syndrome because it feels like such a buzword. But it's like as soon as you even hear those words, at least for me, I was like, oh, yes. That I felt that I can relate to. I understand, and I would love to hear kind of your journey as a woman into leadership and any moments that you might have experienced that. Did you ever have that? What did that look like?
Jacqui Gifford [00:25:23]:
That's a good question. I'm sure I did at some point. I think it's a hard question, though, because I assumed once I got this job, or any job, anybody should realize, and I know this is about, again, it's about leadership, about being the boss. And when you take a step, you have to just know that there are things you're not going to know. Right. I assumed that, and I didn't really get upset about it or beat myself up about it. I just assumed, okay, I got this job. I deserved it.
Jacqui Gifford [00:26:03]:
There are some things that I'm going to learn on the job. Right. And that's where I always say, fake it. Till you make it like you're going to learn some stuff on the job. But that's what everybody does. And so I tried not to be critical of myself and just assumed that ultimately there were some things that I wouldn't know how to do. But I had a good support system around me. I knew I would figure it out.
Jacqui Gifford [00:26:26]:
I would trust myself to be like, there wouldn't be anything that I wouldn't drop the ball. It was going to be okay. I think the thing about imposter syndrome, that sort of. How do I put this? Imposter syndrome, sort of, there needs to be a point at which you really, truly just need to get over it. I really believe that. Or else then you're not effective. That's where I sort of am. Like, if you feel that way every day, God help you, because then I do question whether or not you should be in that position.
Jacqui Gifford [00:27:14]:
That's really what it's about. It's okay to feel that a little bit at first. And I get it, it's normal. But I assume that there are things that I don't know all the time, and I'm okay with that. Why would I expect to have all the. Nobody has the answers figured out. But if you're constantly doubting yourself and thinking you don't deserve to be in the room, then that's something deeper. That's even deeper than imposter syndrome.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:39]:
Well, you know what? It probably is linked to, and I totally agree. When I talk about the struggles with it, I think it oftentimes is those little moments, and then you kind of get better over time at saying, stop that brain. But I bet the deeper thing feels more akin to perfectionism because probably the statement you just made, the fact that you go in and you assume you won't know everything, that's a beautiful statement. And I can say that even for someone like myself, I don't naturally think in that way. There are certain scenarios where you walk into and you think, I should know everything because I've gotten this role or because it looked like that. So having that kind of beginner's mindset, like they say in yoga, that I feel like is probably helped you have a leg up, not have to deal with that quite as much.
Jacqui Gifford [00:28:27]:
I mean, knowing everything is what AI is going to be for. But I digress. No, I assume that, look, I read all the time. I deliberately read about things in print, that topics of information that just don't. I'm not well versed in, or I'll read about a dance performance a play. It might not be something I'm actually going to go see, but it just sort of contributes to my overall understanding of what's happening here in the city and abroad. But if you think that you know everything when you're in a meeting with other people, then that's not going to work out.
Lindsey Epperly [00:29:08]:
Right. The worst thing we can be as certain.
Jacqui Gifford [00:29:11]:
I think you come into it with your expertise and your knowledge and you want, and people come to me with questions and I give them guidance all the time as I know you do. So it's not that I'm saying we know nothing, but I think that there's a level of problem solving that any leader or manager, the president of the United States, everybody's doing it in real time. And the humility, that's really the word I'm looking for. If you don't approach something with humility and understand that you might not get it right all the time. And b, you need to gather the facts and have them presented to you before you make an informed decision, that's okay. The other thing, too, I like to do is I think we're just so conditioned to respond super fast to everybody all the time. And I can be guilty of that. But I've sort of taken a minute in the past year.
Jacqui Gifford [00:30:08]:
I've tried to just sort of lay off. I don't have to be the first one to respond all the time. Sometimes you let it go and the thing solves itself.
Lindsey Epperly [00:30:18]:
Totally.
Jacqui Gifford [00:30:19]:
Yeah.
Lindsey Epperly [00:30:20]:
So that's the way you're handling your inbox. Do you also handle things like social media in the same way?
Jacqui Gifford [00:30:26]:
Sometimes I get a lot of requests or just, like, people reaching out to me on social media, and I really love that about social media, but I can't actually respond to every. I mean, now I have email, I have, obviously, a personal and a work email. I have a phone, so people text me. I have Instagram, I have TikTok, I have WhatsApp. And sometimes I'm like, how did this person even get my phone number? Which is frightening, but you can't. LinkedIn. Forgot about that one. That's another good one.
Jacqui Gifford [00:31:00]:
So it's not actually possible. That would be a full time job. So some stuff goes by the wayside, and I'm okay with that. Now. You have to be. I used to be, like a zero inbox person, and I've read everything that's in my inbox, but I've sort of given up the game of trying to get down to some number that is just in my head.
Lindsey Epperly [00:31:24]:
Yeah, I appreciate that. Honestly, I think that was something that was taught to a lot of us during pandemic times, right? That we don't have to be constantly on call. Living in this kind of, like, rat race society that we've always been. It does feel like this is so overused at this point now that we're about to be in 2024. But it does feel like the opportunity to build back better, and I definitely see evidence of that. I'm curious, as you talk and as you've shared a little bit about your background, if you can even identify this, what came first for you in terms of passion? Was it writing or was it travel?
Jacqui Gifford [00:32:00]:
Probably travel. Just because I traveled so much as a child, but before I was really into writing. Probably travel. Yeah. Actually, I would probably say reading before all of it. Yeah, I'm a pretty big reader. I used to read one book at a time. Now I kind of dabble in multiple books at the same time.
Jacqui Gifford [00:32:24]:
I'm always reading the newspaper, which is like one of my weird pet peeves that people think I look like a crazy old cat lady. Courts newspapers. But it's true. I do.
Lindsey Epperly [00:32:34]:
Keeping them in business.
Jacqui Gifford [00:32:35]:
I keep them in business. Yeah. I would say it's probably more reading reading than travel, than writing.
Lindsey Epperly [00:32:43]:
What is one book that you've read in the past year that you can't stop raving about?
Jacqui Gifford [00:32:48]:
Oh, my. I will. I'll tell you. The book that I read when I was in Rwanda, which is about the genocide. It's called. We wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our family. It is by Philip Gorovich. I bought it at actually, the genocide memorial.
Jacqui Gifford [00:33:08]:
He wrote it. I want to say it was like 90. He reported it in 95, 96. I want to say it came out 98, 99. I need to fact check myself. It was not soon after that, but it's just an amazing book in terms of the depth of reporting and access and what he was able to report and the title for people who. I just encourage you to read it. You'll learn about the title pretty soon into the book.
Jacqui Gifford [00:33:38]:
But I like reading books about places when I'm there to give some.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:44]:
Fantastic.
Jacqui Gifford [00:33:44]:
And I started reading it on day two of the trip, and I finished it on the car ride to the airport.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:51]:
Wow. Do you nearly exclusively read about travel these days or any other topics that you.
Jacqui Gifford [00:33:56]:
I read pretty much everything about anything. I'm also right now reading here comes the sun, which is about Jamaica by Nicole Dennispan. It came out a little bit ago. I bought it at the Strand bookshop here. But it's a travel book. In some ways, it's another style of story, too, but in some ways, it's just because of the setting and the way that she writes. It does feel like a travel book. What else have I read lately?
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:29]:
Yeah.
Jacqui Gifford [00:34:29]:
I mean, I'm just reading all the time.
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:31]:
Yeah. I'm also a voracious reader, so I'm asking truly for myself.
Jacqui Gifford [00:34:35]:
I will give you my list. I will give you my list.
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:38]:
I will do the same back. Actually, even knowing your line of work, I have an interview with her tomorrow because we met recently in my neighborhood. But her name is Samara Bay, and the book is the how do I have it? On my stand right here. Permission to speak. Have you heard of this? Beautifully done. But I think about the platforms and the voices and the power that we have as women to change the narrative and to have the conversations, but also just the way we purely use and project our voices. I've never thought about the science behind it.
Jacqui Gifford [00:35:11]:
I know.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:12]:
Truly.
Jacqui Gifford [00:35:12]:
You'll have to say hi to her for me. I know.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:14]:
No way.
Jacqui Gifford [00:35:15]:
We went to college together. Yeah.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:16]:
What? I had no idea. In all of my research, I did not even put that funny.
Jacqui Gifford [00:35:22]:
I know.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:23]:
Small world.
Jacqui Gifford [00:35:24]:
Very small world.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:26]:
Okay, cool. Well, that threw me. That wasn't in my notes for the conversation today.
Jacqui Gifford [00:35:30]:
I don't know if you would have. I mean. Yeah, that's so funny.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:33]:
That's hysterical. Because I'm interviewing her tomorrow, so I'm sitting here looking at the book in front of.
Jacqui Gifford [00:35:38]:
Yeah, I know.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:39]:
That's funny. Okay, so changing gears a little bit, I want to talk a little bit about, because I think that people listening, of course, we have this exclusive opportunity to get to know you and the position you're in, and you get to stay on top of travel trends in such a wonderful way. And I saw recently your November issue. You had Tracy Ellis Ross, and you get to find two major trends as solo and wellness travel.
Jacqui Gifford [00:36:02]:
Yes.
Lindsey Epperly [00:36:03]:
And I'm curious if, you know, inklings behind why those trends are so prevalent.
Jacqui Gifford [00:36:09]:
Yeah, I think a couple of things. So solo travel was starting to take off before COVID and I think the reason it is continuing, there's this feeling that people don't want. And she articulated it quite well, that she's single, she's unapologetic about the fact that she loves to travel by herself because she's very successful and she doesn't want to wait to be with somebody to do this great trip. There's no reason to. And I think that a lot of people felt that way coming out of COVID There might have been this really great trip. I mean, we saw a lot of solo travelers in Rwanda doing the gorilla trekking and solo men, solo women doing trips. So it's not like this is. I think this is a real thing.
Jacqui Gifford [00:36:51]:
People don't want to wait because they feel like they have to fall in love with someone or travel with a friend in order to validate this kind of experience. And I hosted a cruise last year, or earlier this year, sorry, on Uniworld, and there were a lot of solo river cruisers and people who just. They like the comfort of being on a ship. I think that's where river cruising is kind of really nice because people can be social and they can have dinner with new people. But I think that's another sort of misconception, is that there's this idea that a solo traveler doesn't want to engage with anybody else, and that's not really true, that you actually want to maybe have dinner with somebody or meet a friend on a ship. But the point of it is you're not going to wait to take the trip. You're not going to wait to fall in love with someone to take a trip. So that's something that I think people are just seizing the day.
Jacqui Gifford [00:37:44]:
And then with wellness travel, I mean, this is just something that's been growing and growing and growing, and there are all sorts of fads to it and components to it. But I think that big picture, even if just the idea that people are, there's this move towards cutting down on alcohol, just being more physically fit, choosing more rigorous trips, whether it's gorilla trekking or a crazy mountain bike excursion and name your destination. Galapagos is actually a really rigorous trip, which is what we did this spring. So people really feel like they want to push their bodies. And I think it's a good thing. There's benefits to it. And that kind of wellness is not just going to the spa anymore. It can be that, but it's a lot of other things, and that's a growing market.
Jacqui Gifford [00:38:40]:
I'm talking about six senses. I stayed at their property in Rome recently, and the spa they built there is basically the best in the entire city now. And it's these roman baths, and when you check in, you can do a decompression boot for your legs. And there's all these sort of like biohacking experiences to make travelers reset their body clock. And it's really cool. And I did a whole fitness assessment when I was there. They followed up with me six months later. She noticed that there was some tension I was holding in my sleep.
Jacqui Gifford [00:39:17]:
It was really interesting. It was just a good check in to have.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:21]:
That's incredible.
Jacqui Gifford [00:39:23]:
And anybody who's staying there can opt to do it, and a lot of people, I think, at this point, will do it. Sleep is a big priority for travelers.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:34]:
Yes. A huge aspect of wellness as well that we tend to neglect. That is fascinating. Okay. I know our time is kind of coming to a close, so I would love to let listeners know how to follow along with you. Follow along with travel leisure. What should we direct them to?
Jacqui Gifford [00:39:48]:
You can go to travellenesure.com for just our wonderful, wonderful site that has everything. Pick up the magazine at your local newsstand. I should also say you can go to Apple News plus and download the entire magazine. It's a subscription service, about $15 a month, and we have animation, extra video for the magazine. And then you can follow me on TikTok and on Instagram at Jackie Giff.
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:13]:
Beautiful. Okay. And one of our closing questions we always like to ask, just to cultivate gratitude, is what is one thing that has made you smile today?
Jacqui Gifford [00:40:20]:
Oh, this is easy. So my son, he did really well on his reading assessment. He had fallen behind in school like a lot of kids. This is not unusual because of COVID and he's getting there. So he did really well in his little test, and I was so proud of him. And he wore jeans today. I know that sounds really dumb, but he hates jeans. And he has these same pair of sweatpants that he's worn, and I don't know what.
Jacqui Gifford [00:40:48]:
He just picked out this pair of jeans that my mom had bought him as a present. I've been languishing in the closet, and anybody who knows getting your kid dressed in the morning is such a struggle. And he picked the thing that I've been asking him to wear for months now on his own. So I was like, great. My day is done. I should have just gone back.
Lindsey Epperly [00:41:07]:
I get it. My daughter has worn exclusively dresses for the past 24 months, and now it's cold. What do we do? But way to go, Bobby.
Jacqui Gifford [00:41:14]:
Bobby. I know. I was like, great. He's wearing jeans, and he did well in his test. That's about all I can literally. My day was done. I shouldn't have even left the it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:41:22]:
I love it. Well, I am so happy to hear that and so happy for your time today, Jackie. Thank you. Thank you for being with us on Who Made You The Boss?
Jacqui Gifford [00:41:28]:
Take care.