Episode 9 / Darrah Brustein
Darrah Brustein On Borrowing Confidence, Hype Files and Aligning With Your Values
What You'll Learn in This Episode:
How your intuition influences when to quit and when to continue
Why borrowed confidence can immediately uplevel the way you show up in life
How to build a lifestyle business by aligning your values to your work
How to recognize and move past the nature of people pleasing
How to embrace the dual nature of feedback and integrate it for growth
Explore the intricate dance of identity, control, and personal evolution in this conversation with Darrah Brustein. As a lifestyle business expert, Darrah’s focused efforts have led her to found 5 businesses and collaborate with visionaries like Deepak Chopra. Today’s conversation uncovers the challenges of knowing when to walk away and the triumphs of building a life that genuinely aligns with one’s values. Darrah also shares her unique insights into borrowed confidence and the invaluable role of feedback in personal growth. This episode promises a candid look at striking a balance between pleasing others and preserving self—all through the lens of becoming the boss of one's own life.
ABOUT Darrah Brustein
Darrah Brustein is a 5x founder, author, and coach. She helps overwhelmed business owners and entrepreneurial-minded executives access the freedom, flexibility, and impact they desire.
After spending 10 years over-working and burning out while building a credit card processing company into 38 states and a networking events company for over 30,000 people (which she later sold), she learned the wrong way to do it, and then discovered that there was a better way.
A prolific writer and interviewer, she's worked with Shaq, Deepak Chopra, Seth Godin, Bobbi Brown, Jillian Michaels, Adam Grant, Robert Herjavec, Nastia Liukin, Cam Newton, and the list goes on as well as brands like Chase, Visa, Toyota and FedEx.
Her motto: “Design your life, build a career to fund it, and a network to support it" has inspired millions to reach higher and dream bigger.
“Most winners ‘quit’ so many things because they were getting more and more focused on where they honed their energy. Because they understood either consciously or subconsciously, that where you put your energy grows.”
DARRAH BRUSTEIN
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Lindsey Epperly [00:00:12]:
Welcome to who made you the boss. A podcast for recovering workaholics. I'm your host, Lindsey Epperly, and I invite you to embark on a transformative journey. Our mission on who made you the boss is clear. We're here to tackle the unique, unique challenges that today's professionals face. We're bringing you insightful conversations with a diverse range of entrepreneurs, executives, and creatives all who have forged their own paths. And I'm sharing some of the stories of my decades long career as a leader of my company, Jetset World Travel. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting out on your journey, join us each week as we unravel the mysteries of leadership, self discovery, and the pursuit of fulfillment.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:50]:
It is time to redefine what it means to be the boss of your own life. Let's dive in, and together we'll discover who made you the Boss. Today, we have a wonderful guest and a dear friend of mine who is here to share her journey. The incredible Dera brewstein. So Dera is no stranger to the world of business and personal development. In fact, it's what she has staked her life's work on. She's a five time founder, she's an author, she's a coach, and she is dedicated to helping overwhelmed business owners and entrepreneurial minded executives unlock the freedom, the flexibility and the impact that they desire. And I can tell you, after being a personal friend of hers, she's done the same for me.
Lindsey Epperly [00:01:36]:
After a decade of hard work, Darrah has emerged as a leading voice in the world of entrepreneurship. She first built a credit card processing company that spanned 38 states, and then she organized networking events for over 30,000 people in a company that she later successfully sold. But her journey does not stop there. Deara is also a prolific writer and interviewer. She's had the privilege of working with some of the brightest minds and the biggest names, including Shaq, Deepak Chopra, who she actually tells a great story about in today's conversation seth Godin, Bobby Browns, Julian Michaels, Adam Grant, Robert Hersheva, Cam Newton, the list goes on and on. And she has collaborated with incredible brands like Chase and Visa and Toyota and FedEx. So, without further ado, let's dive into the world of entrepreneurship, personal growth, and building a life on your own terms with my dear friend, Darrah Brustein. Awesome.
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:35]:
Welcome, friends and listeners. And welcome friend Darrah. I am so excited to have you today.
Darrah Brustein [00:02:40]:
I'm grateful to be here and I love hear like, welcome, friends. I was like, oh, that's me.
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:44]:
That is you. You know, it's so fun because we have, over the years, had so many great conversations and I'm like, gosh, I wish I would have recorded that or at least taken notes and like, no, we actually get one recorded.
Darrah Brustein [00:02:54]:
Let's see how this one fares in comparison.
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:58]:
Hopefully, we will bring the same dynamic charisma and wealth of knowledge that I believe we always have together.
Darrah Brustein [00:03:04]:
I believe in us.
Lindsey Epperly [00:03:06]:
Thanks for coming on.
Darrah Brustein [00:03:08]:
Thank you for the invite.
Lindsey Epperly [00:03:09]:
For sure. Well, I'm excited. I want to just kind of dive right in, right? So the name of this podcast is who made you the boss? And I feel like we interview people from all backgrounds and walks of life, but when I think of a boss, when I think of someone who's really taken the reins of their own life, I can't help but think of you. So I feel like you embody this moment of looking yourself in the mirror and saying, like, I am going to make my life my own. And I'm curious if you actually had a literal defining moment, like, what was the catalyst for you? We've shared a little bit about your journey in the intro, but when was that moment for you?
Darrah Brustein [00:03:45]:
Yeah, there was, but I was going to make a joke and say that if you asked my mom and looked back at my baby book, she'd be like it was like instantly when you started bossing your twin brother around immediately. So I guess this also brings us to the question of nature versus nurture, that maybe there's some inherent component to this and maybe it can be taught or learned or anything along those lines. But yes, there was a very pinnacle moment for me, which was after spending three years in the working world, so to speak, post college and having three layoffs back to back, which had a lot to do with the global economy at the time. It being that 2006 to 2009 era where the markets tanked across the world. I picked my head up and thought, there's this thing that I've been fed for so long, this idea of work for someone else. Climb the ladder, cut your teeth, earn your stripes, and then eventually, one day, this sort of like amorphous idea, you'll have what it takes to fill in the blank. And finding the rug pulled out for me time and time again, I was like, Wait a minute. So this idea that people keep saying of get good grades, get a good job, put in your time, do all these things, I'm not seeing that.
Darrah Brustein [00:05:05]:
And it was always underscored with this idea of the stability exists when you do those things, and there's sort of this promise of exchange for some of your freedoms and other things if you do that. And I thought, well, maybe that's true for other people, but that's certainly not been my experience. And I guess third time is a charm for me to wake up and say, yeah, I don't want this anymore. And the thing that that allowed me to do was to pause and reflect, which I think is an important thing to recognize in and of itself. Like when we don't stop to pause and reflect, we often just keep going in that autopilot place, which I had been doing because I felt like, well, I have the vision in mind. I have the destination that I thought I was going to. So I just put pedal to the metal and drove towards it. But when I stopped and I said, this isn't working, something feels off.
Darrah Brustein [00:05:51]:
And I'm consistently seeing the evidence for that. It made me reflect back again to much younger in my life where I always wanted to be a business owner. I didn't understand the term entrepreneur. That wasn't one that I knew. But again, that narrative in the Zeitgeist that kept saying to me, no, take your turn. Don't be this entitled millennial. You've got to follow the steps. I thought, there has to be a better way.
Darrah Brustein [00:06:18]:
And why can't that look this other way? Because if the supposed stability of this one environment that was promised to me isn't working, maybe it's actually no less stable, if not even more stable perhaps to go and build something for myself and to your words, become my own boss.
Lindsey Epperly [00:06:37]:
Yeah, that is beautiful. Well, and I think it's so interesting to think about the fact that we often think we have this kind of chip on our shoulder of like, I've got to earn my stripes because that's the narrative that's fed to us. And I mean, you had three layoffs in three years. That feels like earning your stripes. Who's to say you kind of got a crash course full of hard knocks? Exactly. And I think you've done such a beautiful job with kind of explaining what led you to that conclusion. But there had to be moments where impostor syndrome kind of took hold, right? I mean, especially in those early days.
Darrah Brustein [00:07:12]:
What did that look like and how.
Lindsey Epperly [00:07:13]:
Did you get past that?
Darrah Brustein [00:07:14]:
Well, yes, and because the and is I also had imposter syndrome in the working world because I was like, wait, why can't I hold down one of these jobs? And even though the evidence was supporting that, I should have been able to, meaning like my first job was a sales gig in the fashion industry for a wholesale clothing company and they said, in three years, sell a million dollars worth of product. And I did it in ten months. I was like, I know I'm capable, but yet the outcomes are not matching with the efforts and with the quote, promise. And so, yeah, I feel like it's a yes and because the imposter syndrome certainly showed up on the other side of like, well, I don't know anything about running a business or what. I mean, I hear this question from people and clients all the time. What is the business that I want to start in the I mean, it's one thing to say, I want to start a business. Another to say, here's the business. I want to put all my chips on the table.
Darrah Brustein [00:08:04]:
For and go in on and take the risk and get financially strapped for in many cases early on and do all the things for. So, yeah, all the well, I'll also say this, too, because one thing that I really don't want to happen as a result of this podcast is for people to listen and be like, oh, she just always had it all figured out. No, my biggest Achilles heel has always and historically been self doubt. I remember my first day, freshman year of college at Emory, and my dad, who he would not even be upset with me saying this because he'd probably agree, has zero emotional intelligence, looked at me dead in the eye. And said, Darrah, I can read it all over your face. That you think that you don't belong here, that you think everyone's smarter and better prepared than you. You got in just like everyone else. Remember that.
Darrah Brustein [00:08:49]:
Because every time I'd literally every day I'd walk into a class for the first time in a new semester, I would crumble internally, and I would think, like, oh, my gosh, I can't do this. And again, there was never evidence to support that. And actually, it really helped me build my own personal practice of confidence building to understand one what's just chatter in my mind versus where is there evidence to support this thing? And why am I allowing this chatter when we have tens of thousands of thoughts a day, many of which are not true, to take over and be the thing that I'm believing, versus where there's actual data to support something else that's going to support me in my journey forward? So, yeah, the Impostor syndrome existed. I don't think it ever goes away if you're someone who is growth oriented. And for me, growth and learning is one of my highest values, so it doesn't go away. But I have a very different relationship with it now than I did then.
Lindsey Epperly [00:09:44]:
Yeah. What does that look like for you now?
Darrah Brustein [00:09:48]:
I have a better ability to separate myself from a situation, and a lot of this has to do with mindfulness practices and things that I've engendered over decades of personal development and growth. But this ability to both be in my existence and be outside of my existence at the same time which sounds kind of OD. But to be able to almost observe myself and to be able to catch it much more quickly rather than going down the rabbit hole and tumbling 19 times and being like, Woe is me, and I can't do it. And I'm going to hold myself back and play small and do all the things instead to say to myself, oh, I noticed that. Do I want that to be the truth? Is that the story that I'm going to lean into and build off of and or not? And I'm often able to look at it much more quickly and do that analysis and assessment and say, like, yeah, no, there just isn't a track record that supports that. And whether that's my own anecdotal evidence or I keep this thing I call a Hype file where I screenshot the complimentary things that clients and friends and people say about me. So when I have those moments where I'm in the ditch, I can look it up and be like, wait. But these people who I respect, who I admire, who really know me, they see these things in me.
Darrah Brustein [00:10:59]:
So even if it's me having to borrow the confidence that they have in me until I can wear it and own it for myself, then I will happily do that to be that bridge over the chasm of that doubt and that confusion. But the first step to be able to do that is that awareness. And if I don't have the presence and that ability to say, like, this is happening again, because the other piece of it, too, is I've really shifted my mindset from the questions and the doubts more often to why not this is fun. It can be a game. Why not make it exploratory or more curiosity based or scavenger hunt like, which changes the tenor of it completely from like, oh, wow, I don't know. This is daunting. This is scary, to what are the possibilities here? So it really shifts from that side of the spectrum of fear based to possibility and potential based.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:53]:
So fascinating. Okay, I just want to camp out on everything you said. I just mentally took three or four notes of, like, let's dive in deeper to each element of but one. That observation thing is so interesting. I remember hearing or reading Brown at one point talking about, observe yourself like a scientist, right? Like you're just constantly kind of poking around and you knowing you as a friend, you are so good at that because you do approach life with this curiosity. I think it's what makes you a fantastic interviewer. It's what allows you to kind of like dabble in various areas where you say, I'm curious about this. I'm curious about flower arranging.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:24]:
Now I'm going to go flower arrange. It's just so cool to watch you do this.
Darrah Brustein [00:12:27]:
You love the flower market.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:28]:
They're beautiful. I can't wait to go to the flower shop with you. But a couple of things I want to dive in deeper that I really want to make sure we don't miss the actual real lesson. And a lot of the knowledge you just dropped. One is talking about that Hype file. I've heard you talk about this before, and I've actually had a few people on my team at Jetset talk about doing this. And I just think it is such a beautiful idea, especially on those days where you feel really down or doubt keep. Is it a folder on your desktop? Like, where do you keep this?
Darrah Brustein [00:12:57]:
It's an actual folder in my Iphotos on my phone, which makes it so easy because most of these things come in a digital format. And I will say also it has a dual function where it's really great to keep testimonials. So if I'm doing some sort of marketing campaign or want to throw something up somewhere, they're right there. But it does not have to be something you share publicly. It can be exclusively private.
Lindsey Epperly [00:13:22]:
Yeah. How do you keep that from evolving into people pleasing?
Darrah Brustein [00:13:27]:
Yeah, that's interesting because I think and I don't mean to be stereotypical or binary about this, but oftentimes as women, we are just culturally more socialized to be that anyway, to not rustle feathers and rock the boat, so to speak. And so I wouldn't say that I've perfected not being a people pleaser, but I will say, and I think this goes a little bit back to the nature nurture. I've always been a little bit more capable and interested in just speaking what feels true to me. And over time, that started earlier in my life in a place where my mo around that was not a healthy one, where it started as well. This is just the truth. So take it or leave it. As opposed to understanding how much delivery matters, how much the audience matters, in the way that you deliver something, what the impact and intention both matter. And so that took me a long time to learn and evolve and grow into, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so, but I don't know where I'm going with that.
Darrah Brustein [00:14:25]:
But I think that that's important to consider, too, that the people pleasing part. It's a balance. Because what I don't want to do is ever go back to that younger version of myself that gave zero f's and was like, take it or leave it. If you don't want to hear it, then don't show up. I was just so righteous in an annoying, obnoxious, hurtful way, which ultimately was coming from a place of self preservation and protecting myself from hurt. But now it's more of, okay, certainly I'm not always the best at this. I might have a client ask for something. I don't feel like we've developed the trust yet for me to push back, or I will a little, and I'll get anxious about that, but then I'll realize, oh, that was totally fine.
Darrah Brustein [00:15:05]:
And I think progress for me matters more than doing something perfectly. And that's sort of the journey for me with that.
Lindsey Epperly [00:15:14]:
Yeah, no, thank you for that answer. I'm asking for a friend myself because I can imagine, and I imagine if I keep this hype file, the Enneagram seven in me that's just addicted to dopamine and needs more and more and more and also the people pleaser in me. That could be a potential pitfall of using others to hype you up. But I love that you do it and you do it in a way that keeps you balanced and in check, and it sounds like it just reminds you of who you are versus the kind of tightrope walk that we often do to get the approval of others.
Darrah Brustein [00:15:48]:
Well, I think this is how we're wired, right? Humans are social beings. And connection, for me, again, I'm talking about highest values. Like, I've already hit on growth and learning. My third highest value is connection. My first is freedom. So connection matters so much. And I think one of the most critical things of having connection in a way that it's with people of different vantage points, perspectives, not being in one eco chamber, not all with group think is that it allows them to be a mirror and to show you either things that you might admire or even envy and say, like maybe there's something in that that I can take for myself and learn and apply in a way that works for me. And also that hopefully in some of those relationships, it opens a door for a feedback loop where, whether it's direct or indirect, that you can kind of see and learn through that relationship, where you have opportunities to grow and or where you have things that you really can build on.
Darrah Brustein [00:16:40]:
Actually, there's a tool that's on my website that people should take if they want this, and it's questions that you can ask people in your network to help you find your path. And even if you don't want to find your path, if you feel like you're on it, it can be such a helpful way to utilize that mirroring effect, where if you take ten, let's say, people from different areas, of your life, who've known you for different times in different capacities, and you ask them the set of nine questions that it involves, like what am I doing when you see me at my best? What's something you know about me that you think I don't know about myself? What's something that maybe you don't love the most about me? That's not the wording of the question, but it's something along those lines. And you don't take each one as gospel, but you put them into sort of the cauldron together and mix it up and you look for the patterns to emerge. And when you see those patterns emerge this was a really essential thing for me when I was in the early stages of my career. Because for people, I think like you and I, who don't necessarily have the skills that are celebrated in traditional ways when we're growing up, like, we're not the star athlete, we're not the greatest singer or dancer, we're not number one at fill in the blank, but we're good at stuff. But we're like, where does that place us? Where do we go? These are questions that don't necessarily evade us as we age. Doing exercises like this, they can feel really uncomfortable because you're like, wow, I'm asking people I care about to answer these very direct questions about me. So whether you do it in a really formatted approach like that and or you just allow the opportunity for life to be that mirror for you in a more passive way.
Darrah Brustein [00:18:19]:
That's a big part of relationships. I think you've also read Dr. Harville Hendricks's work who coined the idea of the amago image. And he's talking in this case about, your know, romantic is not really the technical word, but like romantic relationship. And he talks about how this idea of the amago is that mirror effect and why your primary relationship is often the most growth centric relationship and also the most challenging because it invites us to see those parts of ourselves that maybe we would otherwise be able to avoid or deflect or other things. But every relationship has the potential for that. That one. It's just more pedal to the metal.
Lindsey Epperly [00:19:01]:
Wow, okay. I love this so much because just on a personal level, first of all, we will link to that tool that you are mentioning that's on your website because I want to go on and take this. Now, here's something we can add to your Hype file. Just two days ago, I was having coffee with our mutual friend Gina, who has done coaching with you before. And Gina actually referenced exactly this exercise and how much it helped her. It's fantastic. She said, I did it with Dear. You've got to do this.
Lindsey Epperly [00:19:25]:
And so it sounds like something that we all should do and help us kind of better understand how others perceive us when we think we are offering this one perception of ourself. And I think even you and I have had conversations like this before of being females in business and showing up and showing up as our true selves. But sometimes people perceive that as intimidating or standoffish or whatever word they want to use around someone that's just coming up as themselves. And to hear how others perceive us, I think is a really important exercise that I'm sure we don't do on a I mean, you just don't do that's not a natural thing to do on a your day to day basis. You have to actually carve out the intention and do it right because feedback.
Darrah Brustein [00:20:05]:
Can feel really frightening. Like, I run positive psychology based 360s for my executive coaching clients, for example. And when I ask a lot of them, what's your experience with feedback in the business world? It's usually like not great. Usually it feels like this witch hunt or problem dumping ground as opposed to something that can build on things and help them actually improve or feel like something that's within a context that they know what to do with. And I think that often that's what happens in our reptilian brain where we go into that fight, flight, freeze or fawn place of do I really want to know? And the other thing too is it almost really does put us on the hook. Like, if I sent you one of these questionnaires from this tool that I'm talking about, I sort of am subliminally telling you I'm accepting the responsibility for not taking what you say as gospel, but saying like, I'm putting myself on the hook to do something about this. That I'm not wasting your time, I'm not asking for your emotional energy and bandwidth to then just sit on it and do nothing. That's not necessarily a promise someone's going to say overtly.
Darrah Brustein [00:21:14]:
But I do think there's this subliminal idea of if I do this, I actually need to do something about this. Which is great because accountability to self is really important and I think we lack integrity when we're not able to be people of our words with some amount of consistency or regularity. But I think that often engenders fear and keeps people from doing any of these things in the first place.
Lindsey Epperly [00:21:37]:
I completely agree. You just said the word integrity and we focused at the very beginning of this call a lot on how you've built an entrepreneurial journey. But I feel like one thing that is really special about you and one of the reasons I just adore you is that you live a well rounded life of integrity. And you don't just practice and preach this in your business, but you've managed to make this your whole life, your personal life, your professional life, and now you coach others to do the same. And so I'd love to just talk a little bit more about what it is about building this as a lifestyle, businesses that you've built, but also just kind of like how do you pour yourself into the business and then have it pour back into you, and then you're just living this very well rounded, integrated life. And I think it's something you really put a high emphasis on, and I'd love to learn more about that.
Darrah Brustein [00:22:25]:
Well, first, thank you. I appreciate that. Second, one of the things that I do with pretty much all of my one on one coaching clients is take them through a program pre like they do it on their own prior to us doing our sessions together called the Life Design and Discovery Lab. And in that program it's asking them really intentional questions and taking them through exercises to do things to be able to spout out like I've been doing, what their highest values are, to see where the concordance and discordance is between how they're actually showing up in their life in different areas and what they say they value. Because my life and businesses have basically been petri dishes for everything that I've done beyond there. So for example, in my first business in the credit card processing company, I wasn't doing this, I wasn't living in integrity and it wasn't because I recognized it's because again, I was in that autopilot place. I was living in the oh well, everyone else seems to value these things. So they say more clients, they say more revenue, they say more press hits, they say more people on your team, they say expansion always.
Darrah Brustein [00:23:29]:
And I just aimlessly went for that because I thought I didn't know any better. But there were so many signals and cues internally that were telling me, like, you're burning out, you're exhausted. You're foregoing the things that you say that you value. You can't even enjoy the fruits of your labor because you're so tethered to your phone and your laptop all the time and your adrenals are beyond fatigued because every time someone reaches out, you go into firefighter mode, even if it's not a real emergency. It just wasn't sustainable. But I couldn't get my head above water for long enough. I wasn't choosing to see that. So I was definitely out of integrity.
Darrah Brustein [00:24:07]:
And it's those types of things that over time, as I did these little micro experiments and played with hypotheses of my own, like what if I close my laptop at a certain point? What if I put do not disturb on? What if I direct them with automated messages to their 24/7 support lines? What if I take a weekend off? What if I take three days off in a row? What if I don't answer my emails for 3 hours in the middle of the day because I'm doing something else in the business or elsewhere? And each time my fears were completely debunked where it would be, oh, everything, the house of cards is going to fall down or clients are going to leave or they're going to be pissed. Until I realized I was training them to teach me those. I was training them to treat me those ways. And when I stepped back, I was like, oh, things have actually gotten better. Our revenue grew, I felt better. And then the integrity came because I was able to slowly realign the business to be something that supported the life I wanted. And this has become a fundamental philosophy for me in my work, which is I want to help people build businesses that become the vehicle to create the time and financial freedom that they want and need for life on their terms, not on other people's, not in, like, the oh, it needs to be $10 million arbitrarily that I make. No, it's like this program actually takes you through, like, what are those values? How are you spending your time? Where's your energy depleting versus not what are your habits? And then ultimately bring you to a place through visualization, through guiding, through thought prompts to help you really envision what's the dream? What does that dream life cost? How much time do I want to dedicate to different parts of it, including what I allocate to the business? And then we reverse engineer how the business either needs to be built from the ground up or needs to be reallocating what's happening? And reverse engineered into a way that says, great, what are the strategic points in order of operations to actually make that your reality over time versus letting this business be.
Darrah Brustein [00:26:01]:
The thing that runs you rather than you run it. And for me, that integrity. It's not the same for everyone, right? Because you and I are friends, but it doesn't mean we value the same things, which is great. I don't want all the same needs in my life. And for you, the way you run your business. Like, I have some clients who genuinely and full of integrity and full of passion run their business 60 hours a week, 70 hours a week. Others who are like, I run it 3 hours a day, three days a week. And it just depends.
Darrah Brustein [00:26:30]:
There's so many nuances to it. But I think the integrity piece is so important. And I will say I have been, both by design and by a little bit of great fortune, been able to continue to build businesses that dovetail with the things that I value. So coaching, I don't think I'd be a great coach if I wasn't in the integrity of walking the talk to and taking my own medicine. So if I'm talking to clients about even basic fundamentals of like, are you getting enough sleep? Are you taking enough time away from business? Where are you replenishing? What's your nutrition like? What are the people like that you surround yourself with? I mean, just these fundamental things and mine are total disasters. That's hypocritical, and that wouldn't work. So fortunately, I'm in a line of work that is constantly inviting me to be in my own work, too.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:23]:
So fascinating. Well, and I think about gosh, okay, every time you give an answer, I want to sit on this answer and unpack it in like four or five different ways. And I'm trying to figure out what's the best direction first. But listening to you, I think one of the common misconceptions people have because I had this when I was in a season of just like 90 to nothing, and it was just always the next thing in the season of busyness and going after what society tells us success is before actually stepping back and redefining that. But I know the number one thing that defined that point in my life was control. And the way that I felt like, well, that house of cards is going to fall if I don't have just a death grip on it. And when Jeremy came in to the business with me, I would tell him, like, you're going to have to pry my cold, dead hands off of it. This is my baby and I am just got to find the neck.
Lindsey Epperly [00:28:11]:
So I'm curious what you do with people that you're coaching that are coming in with that mentality of everything you just described actually works the best when you start loosening your grip. And a mentor once told me that the tighter you cling, the slower you'll grow. And I've seen evidence of that. But how do you go about helping people loosen their grip of control?
Darrah Brustein [00:28:32]:
Yeah, so I think it depends on the person, right? Because for a lot of us, there's deeply rooted stuff connected to that, which is why I have this weird bag of tricks that I've accumulated over the years, like studying Hypnosis, studying Reiki, energy healing, understanding neuroscience. Because if I just said to you, person A and then person B, okay, let it go. Let's do exposure, shock therapy, basically just stop caring about that. That might work really well for person B, but for person A, that might actually spiral them into a really worse place where they lose trust in me. Things get worse, they don't have the chance of getting better. It really has to do with what's that root that's holding you in that place in the first place. And this is something I really relate to. I always wanted control, and it came from my upbringing and the way that I was taught that I always needed to be perfect and the way that things looked mattered more than how they felt internally.
Darrah Brustein [00:29:26]:
And there was just so many messages that were slowly ingrained in me. And so as I got older, I almost wore it as this badge of honor of well, I am so in control of everything and I don't let any of the balls drop. And this and that and the other. Until I realized, honestly, COVID was such a good eye opener and reawakening for me around this of like, what a farce. How have I been pretending that I'm in so much control when me and the rest of the world are now realizing how little control we actually have and how that really is another opportunity for self preservation when we get so caught up in this idea of this fallacy of control. And it doesn't mean what I am not saying is that you need to become someone that's like, I don't care, and I just go with the flow of everything, and I don't put in effort or any intention. I'm not saying that there's, like, extremes that we need to go to. I think the extremes are rarely the answer.
Darrah Brustein [00:30:22]:
Everything is about nuance, and everything has a time and a place. But so it's really about getting down to what's the real why and root around the desire and need for that control in the first place. And for some people, it might be evidence based. They might be able to see like you did, go look at ten entrepreneurs you admire and ask them how'd you get to that place. And I will venture to guess that either directly or indirectly by you asking or them just offering, they will tell you that when I held the grip like I was suffocating the growth that you're not able to but we're talking about suffocating. We'll use a fire metaphor that when you let the fire breathe and you give it air and allow someone who really knows what they're doing to tend to the fire and let the fire really blossom and keep going, then great. And so this is where you begin to introduce things like delegation, outsourcing, letting things go altogether, doing little micro experiments to say, like, what's a rubber ball versus a glass one? Meaning what can I allow to drop versus what's going to break for certainty? And don't start with the glass balls. Maybe never do the glass balls, but let the rubber balls go.
Darrah Brustein [00:31:32]:
And I see this with leaders across the spectrum from like, I'm just starting up to I'm an executive or like a major leader at a Fortune 500 company. This is not uncommon because there's so much that feels like it's at stake. It's our livelihood. For some people, highest values might be like security and safety. And it feels like, well, if I let go, then these major fears come to the surface. But even within that, it's, okay, well, what would you do if that fear happened? Or what's the likelihood of that fear transpiring in the first place? So it comes back to what we were talking about earlier, of having that presence and awareness, that self knowing, that sort of monitoring of oneself to say, am I letting these things hijack me more than actually support me? So it's really no different. It's funny because I think people poo poo like mindset work. They're like, oh, whatever, just tell me the five steps and let me get to the revenue goals and whatever else that I want to do.
Darrah Brustein [00:32:29]:
And then you're like, cool. But here's seven things in your way. You're showing up that are either old stories or things that you think are non negotiable or these mindset things that are not helping you at all. They're actually the primary reasons you're not going to sustainably get where you're going. And the effect of rejiggering those things has such a cascading positive impact. So differently than, okay, great, if we build a system around this thing which has positive effect too, but it's really starting from the foundation rather than being like, let me decorate the house. If that's a shitty metaphor, but hopefully you're following.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:14]:
No, you're doing great with your metaphors. I'm loving them. Well, I'm curious to kind of dive in deeper to the idea of all these fears, right? Like you talk about that's what people's driving force against moving forward in this path is. And you've heard me talk and knowing my story, and I have this kind of the work that I do called The Monsters That Save US, this idea that there are these big, hidden, scary fears that we are terrified will come out of the closet. And then oftentimes they do. Life just has this funny way of saying, like, here it is. Here's the business being leveled overnight, or here is this major health crisis that's going to just throw you into a totally different world, which I've personally had happen.
Darrah Brustein [00:33:50]:
Yeah, I was going to say, it sounds like personal experience happened a couple.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:53]:
Of times, but going down those roads where you almost have to lose it all in order to understand, like, oh, that wasn't it all. That wasn't everything that I thought that it was. To have the perspective to say, oh, actually, this helped bring me to who I am. I feel like those are the types of moments that help you discover your identity. And I would be curious to hear if you have any that you can share that you were like, this is the big, scary thing I was terrified would happen. And then it did, and it actually led me to myself, for sure.
Darrah Brustein [00:34:22]:
I also want to kind of go to the macro view of this for a second, which is I don't know if this was Dr. Maya Angelou, but I think it's often attributed to her. She talks about this idea of fill in the blank, like God, universe, energy, whatever works for you will send you these signs and signals. And it'll first be a little pebble, and if you don't get it, then it'll be a rock, and then it'll be a bigger rock. And then the rocks get bigger and bigger until it's the boulder that collapses everything because it's like, wake up and listen. Why are you not getting the message? It's similar to the parables where someone's like, I am stuck on this island and I need a boat, and send me a red boat. And they see a red airplane go over, like, Where's the boat? And then they see a dolphin swim up, and they're like, well, that's not it. You get the point where it's like all these other things are showing up, but they're so steadfastly focused on their vision of what this thing needs to look like that they're missing the signals that are showing up for them anyway.
Darrah Brustein [00:35:19]:
And so what you're talking about, I think, is like, well, how do you get the message before it gets to the boulder sending you the huge health crisis or sending you the business collapsing? And, yeah, I definitely had this we had two embezzlements in my first company that took us from a place of my twin brother and I have been growing this credit card processing company. It was scary as hell. I didn't have a lot of safety net financially. I had tons of the insecurities and personal fears. Then on top of that, I had my parents saying, I don't really know if you're cut out for this. Maybe you should just go get a stable job and you guys should leave this thing behind. And you're like, Cool, there's a great one. My parents not believing in me, but they're really trying to protect me and coming from love.
Darrah Brustein [00:36:00]:
But it totally derails your own sense of confidence to then saying, okay, we're finally multiple years into this business, we're at a point where things feel stable, where we're making money, where I am not so panicked and stressed, and then everything goes away because of an embezzlement. And to find myself, I was literally on the bathroom floor crying like, I can't do this. Oh my God, my parents were right. Like, what an idiot I was to then eventually build back the stamina to rebuild and then have it happen again and rebuild again, when then other people are like, why are you doing this again? You seem crazy. And I just had to trust myself and say, I know in my heart of hearts that we've shown evidence that we can do this. These are absurd external circumstances. Now we're going to change the types of partnerships that we have and their ability to have that access. But all that to say, these things happen, and I certainly wouldn't wish them on someone.
Darrah Brustein [00:37:01]:
I don't want them to happen again. But it's taught me, like you said, that there's so much learning in that, that there was always a lesson for me that I wasn't getting because I wasn't paying enough attention to the signals and the rocks and the pebbles that were coming prior to that.
Lindsey Epperly [00:37:14]:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. And now we can look at today that company that you still have that is passive income for you and also was kind of like your dojo. You got to play in that and figure out what works, what doesn't. How can I live an integrated life? And then you were able to go on and teach others from that. So I mean, the beauty that has come from your tenacity to hold on to it is just tenfold.
Darrah Brustein [00:37:35]:
I appreciate that. And I'll say that's not always the right choice, right? I think this is such a tough question on people. Like, when do you throw in the towel? When do you know that it's time to quit? And I like to, one, give credence to the sort of counterargument of like I grew up with the mantra from my dad of quitters never win and winners never quit. And it's taken me so long in my adult life to realize that that's total bullshit because most winners quote unquote, whatever that even means, quit so many things because they were getting more and more focused on where they honed their energy because they understood either consciously or subconsciously, that where you put your energy grows. And if that's scattered, you see scattered results versus if it's streamlined and focused, you see more exponential results because of that. And so the idea of quitting can actually be really great because it's you saying no to the thing that's not actually building you closer to what's your highest priorities and yes to the stuff that is. But when to quit the things, I think is such a personal decision that, again, comes back to having that connection to that inner voice and knowing to say, is this my time? Versus other people in the chorus saying, oh, my gosh, you've had two embezzlements. You absolutely need to get out of this.
Darrah Brustein [00:38:49]:
This is foolhardy to continue. And I trusted that that wasn't the right guidance for me. And fortunately that panned out to be the case that I was right. That's not necessarily always the case. But I do think that when we look back and we think where did we trust ourselves? Where were we leaning into our intuition? Where was our gut telling us something? And even if it didn't, quote, work out, did that still feel like the right choice for us because of whatever transpired? The answer is typically yes when we're listening to that because there's another conversation I have with clients a lot around understanding the distinction between that instinct versus fear because the voices can feel very similar. But typically I tend to find that there's more of an expansive feeling internally when it's the intuition and there's more of a contracting one when it's fear based and people have different relationships with this, but there's often some truth to either of those extremes for people when they're discerning between those voices.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:45]:
Interesting. I have not thought about it in that way and I think it's a really great question to ask yourself on when to move forward and when to quit. And teeny tiny little book that we always go to in my relationship when it comes to the different things that we're working on in the business as Jeremy being my business partner is The Dip by Seth Godin. Have you read this?
Darrah Brustein [00:40:04]:
I mean, right?
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:04]:
Like under 100 pages and just kind of helps you reassess and reevaluate. Is this something we want? We call these re up moments and especially in business, you can hit them as milestones and realize, all right, if we don't actively choose to re up here, then we are going to reach a plateau and this is going to become an issue. This is going to burn us out. So how do we actively choose to either re up or walk away from whatever it is that we're working on at the time? These can be even little micro things in the business.
Darrah Brustein [00:40:28]:
Right.
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:28]:
But it is so helpful to know when to move forward and when to move on, I guess.
Darrah Brustein [00:40:35]:
Yeah, I think that's a really great exercise.
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:38]:
One last exercise I want to talk about that I have learned from you and I just want listeners to know about it and hear it straight from you is the idea of borrowed confidence. And you even said this in one of your answers earlier and I kind of made the mental note to return to because it's something that Jeremy and I still reference. We heard you talk about it on social media or on a date night or know when we heard what you were kind of envisioning. And this idea of when you don't have the confidence in yourself, can you tell? Explain it. I don't want to explain it and take it. I mean, you came up with this concept, and we reference it all the time because it's so and I'm glad.
Darrah Brustein [00:41:09]:
To hear that it's helpful because I really needed it. Because, like I mentioned, that has been such a challenge for me throughout my whole life, life and the time that it really encapsulated for me. And this always sounds name droppy, so forgive it in advance, but there was a time, maybe like four or five years ago, where things just kept finding me in a position where I was getting to work with one. Of my intellectual heroes. Who's Deepak Chopra? Where I had had this we'll go back to intuition, this intuitive knowing when I was building my first couple companies that kept saying to me in different ways, and obviously, I don't have clear audience, clear voice. It wasn't like a literal like, here are the exact words that are being handed to you and you're hearing this. But I just had this felt sense that kept saying, there's this new incarnation of your career on the horizon. And I was like, no thanks.
Darrah Brustein [00:42:01]:
Not interested. Exhausted. Been building all these things, finally enjoying the fruits of them. Leave me alone. And most of those things, it just kept coming up and coming up until I was finally like, fine, but what is this new incarnation? What am I supposed to be doing with it? And it's where the root and sort of the initial seedlings of coaching came. But coaching was not the thing I wanted to do. I actually was very disinterested in being a coach for a number of reasons in the early days, having a lot to do with seeing a lot of shady practices and self evangelizing and ego based stuff that wasn't really actually about the betterment of the other person, more so than the person in the seat of the coach. All that to say doesn't matter because doesn't matter what everyone else is doing.
Darrah Brustein [00:42:46]:
Like, if you do, it back to a place of integrity. And honestly, this is a thread that's been across all my businesses. Credit card processing, also known as used car salesman, of financial services, networking events. People hate them, think that they're like slimy transactional. So I'm like, I guess I'll just be the Robin Hood of things in the sense of let me come in and right the wrongs of the people in these industries and bring them back to a place of integrity and authenticity. And not because, like, think that I am cool or awesome to do that. Just because I just keep finding myself in those places where I'm like, cool, why not? So all of this to say with borrowed confidence, this idea kept coming to me. And as I was brainstorming and honestly going through a lot of the exercises that I take, people who are looking for clarity in their direction through now helped me get to this place where I realized it was time for me to share a lot of my practices.
Darrah Brustein [00:43:35]:
That took me from having a life that was completely consumed by my business, where it just fit into the nooks and crannies. I was living for other people's versions of success to the opposite was to do. And this was pre COVID, pre, like zoom being a thing that people knew about. Doing this virtual summit. And I made a list of my top 20 dream people to headline this three day virtual thing that I'm not technologically savvy. I was like, I don't know how I'm going to do this, but sure, I'm going to do this online conference. And Deepak was one of them. And lo and behold, I want to say this.
Darrah Brustein [00:44:10]:
I think people often think, especially in the world of woo and manifestation, just say you want to do the thing and kick back and wait for it to show up. No manifestation or creation of things that you want in your life is a combination of an intention that is aligned for you and is as removed as possible from doubt and resistance meets action that moves you closer to that thing. So you are available for the thing and you are demonstrating to, again, universe, God, whoever, that it's available to you, that you're interested, that you're open and you're actually creating the inertia and momentum for the thing to start happening. So call it self fulfilling prophecy, call know action bias, like, whatever it is, but it's not just action and it's not just wishful thinking. It's this beautiful blend of the two things.
Lindsey Epperly [00:44:56]:
The harder I work, the luckier I get, I think, is how Glennon Doyle puts it, right?
Darrah Brustein [00:45:00]:
And you're like well, I wonder why Because you had an intention, you moved towards it, you put your energy towards it. That grew, it cascaded. Anyway, so this is what happened here where I was taking the aligned action to move towards the possibility of he or any of these 20 others becoming these headliners. And lo and behold, the fates would have it. His publicist answered one of my press releases. I thought I was being PR catfished. Turns out it was real. They said, Go fly to New York and do a live interview with him for this.
Darrah Brustein [00:45:30]:
I was like, sure. I mean, I live in Atlanta. I had never done a live interview. I didn't have a film crew. But I was like, yeah, see you next week. So went and figured it all out, really connected with him. Ended up getting hired by Chase to do something I'd never done before, which was to be sort of this on site correspondent for a business conference they were doing in Atlanta. Lo and behold, guess who I'm interviewing? Cam Newton and Deepak Chopra.
Darrah Brustein [00:45:55]:
And I'm like, hey, Deepak. Good to see you. Three months later again. So suddenly I'm like, yeah, dominoes are falling here. And he's already done the thing that I had desired. Like, he was already a part of the summit. And as time goes on, this is probably fall of whatever year that was pre COVID, so maybe 2018. I sent him this email along with all the other people who headlined this event, like Adam, Grant, Johnson, Chero, some incredible humans.
Darrah Brustein [00:46:24]:
And I just know it's really meant the world to me. And this, as someone who cares so much about relationships, I hope doesn't just become like a side note for people, but really goes to show how important it is to nurture the relationships that are in your life. And I said it was the day after Christmas. It meant so much to me how we connected this year and how you contributed and something personal, and just basically said, I just want you to know I'm in your corner in the coming year if there's anything I can do to support you and your initiatives. And Deepak wrote back 20 minutes later and he said, actually, I think that you can help me to make my work less esoteric and more easily digestible for people. And I said, well, first of all, my jaw was on the floor, and I was like, me? What? There's seven or 8 billion people on this planet. Why is he asking me this? But I pretended and wrote back, and I was like, yeah, totally. What do you have in mind?
Lindsey Epperly [00:47:13]:
I'm your girl.
Darrah Brustein [00:47:14]:
And he writes back, he goes, well, I don't know. What do you think? And I was like, shoot, good game, set, match, here Deepak. So I send him this response that just instantly came to me. I just said, I think we should have a video series. I think we should call it diving deep with deepak. We will do short form videos where I ask you questions that listeners want to understand, and then I will translate and basically reorient your answer into one that most people who are not like PhDs in metaphysics can understand. And he goes, great, we'll start in two weeks. And instead of calling it diving deep with Deepak, we'll call it diving deep with Deepak.
Darrah Brustein [00:47:46]:
And Darrah, let me know when you're ready to get started. And that set into a chain effect of 33 episodes together and a friendship. And that's where this idea of borrowed confidence really coagulated for me, where I was like, hold on here. Like I said, seven to 8 billion people on this planet. Deepop could ask literally anyone. He has the series with Oprah, has the series with Alicia Keys, he could ask anyone. And he asked me, this random girl that he had met twice to do this thing with him. And it was in that moment that I thought, let me borrow the confidence that deepak sees in me until I can really own and wear that for myself, because I can't just take this as a fluke.
Darrah Brustein [00:48:31]:
He truly could have picked anyone and he chose me. And even as we went through the know, he's not one to just say things for the sake of saying them. And so he would say, you have a gift at like, you should keep doing things like this. And I really held on to that, not know I was trying to make it a distinction for my ego being like, oh, my gosh, you're doing this thing with deepak, or, oh, my gosh, he's giving it to compliments, but more so of like, he's gifting you with these mirror things like we've talked about before. Like in any relationship, he's mirroring back to you. These things you do not appreciate in yourself, you take for granted because they come naturally to you. And he's giving you reasons to sink your teeth in, and he's giving you an opportunity and a platform to do that, borrow that confidence, and that's where that came from and what that means.
Lindsey Epperly [00:49:15]:
Wow. I love that I've known bits and pieces of that story, but I don't think I've ever heard you tell the whole story, so that was really meaningful. With our remaining time, we've talked a lot about living a life of integrity, choosing when you become the boss. I want to talk about just like, the last 24 hours in Darrah's life. We have this corny little joker. It's not a joke. It's just kind of a life motto at this point that we ask the family every night, and it is what has made you smile today. Just remember that we can be grateful.
Lindsey Epperly [00:49:45]:
Mila has now translated this into what was your happy today? So I would love to hear, what was your happy today?
Darrah Brustein [00:49:53]:
I'll go back in the 24 hours spectrum because it's like not that it's pretty early today. Last night, Brendan, my partner, and I had a conversation. So I don't know when this will come out, but when we're recording, I am pregnant. He was asking me to reflect on my experience in this pregnancy journey because I don't know how much you plan to share or have shared about your journey, but and I have similar backgrounds of not being your typical journey to wanting to be a mom or choosing to be a mom. And that being something I think both of us felt at different times. We likely never choose to, you know, you're a mom of two now. I am a future mother of one. And he was asking me about that because my getting to this point was so enmeshed and embedded in fear, which is such a different way that I approached anything than everything else in my life.
Darrah Brustein [00:50:46]:
But I was so drowning in the fears of it to now how he's seen me over the last months of being pregnant and how he'd noticed it. But he was asking me very pointedly about it, and I was able to share my reflections, but I think what made me smile was him. Reflecting back on me of how cool it's been for him to watch me sort of embody this. And my friend Kimberlyn, and I like to call it like, the calm yes that I just keep leaning into because I'm not a big proponent of hell yes or hell no. Because on the emotional spectrum, my set point is like a seven and a half out of ten, where I don't access ten very often anyway, and I don't access, like, zero and one and two very often either. So I'm like, hell yes is so rare for me, regardless, that I'm like, no, screw that. And it's like, that calm yes of like, yeah, that just feels good. Let's move forward with that.
Darrah Brustein [00:51:37]:
And that's how this has felt. And so for him to reflect back and be like, I just feel like you're in each step and you're just like with it and you're finding your own rhythm with this and you're connecting in your own way. And that really made me smile and in some ways even ties up this conversation into a nice little package of that relationship obviously being my primary one was that gift to me of mirroring back to me a part of myself that maybe I wasn't even noticing because I was just in it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:52:03]:
Yes. So beautiful. And you're absolutely right. I feel like the journey that you and I have both had to motherhood is such unique one because we don't see that in ourselves. And yet it's the most beautiful and most rewarding journey I've ever had. And I am so excited outside looking in, I look at you and would think, of course she's going to make a fantastic mom. But it's just something within us that thinks, like, am I is this same bigger question that we're asking here too, of who made you the boss? Who am I to decide that I should take control of my own life? And everyone else, can I add, has.
Darrah Brustein [00:52:36]:
A lot to do with identity. Like, you've referenced the word identity and I'm fascinated by the concept of identity because how we perceive ourselves has so much to do with how we show up to any circumstance or environment. So when we say, like, I read versus I'm a reader, those are very different things. And in some ways it's the converse where it's like, I did something bad versus I'm a bad person. So to deconstruct the that's my identity versus that's an action that I did, and it has so much to do. And so I think with parenthood in particular, for me, and maybe for you too, allowing there to be a massive evolution in the way that I see my own identity, it was the same thing. I never thought I wanted to be in a long term relationship. I never thought I wanted to be married.
Darrah Brustein [00:53:25]:
I didn't think I wanted to have kids. And to let all of those things be held not with control, but loosely and say, great, how do I let this identity evolve so that I'm not constricting and constraining myself from how things are showing themselves and what feels like that calm. Yes. For me, to move forward has been really essential. Versus I used to lock myself into these identities of like, you are independent, you are this, you are that. Freedom only means this thing to you. Growth only means in these ways versus to be so much more malleable and mutable in the way that I perceive myself. And these constructs changed so much for me.
Darrah Brustein [00:54:05]:
And I see it so much in the people I coach, too, where it's like, if you don't see yourself as a leader, as the boss, as the CEO, as the business owner, that will continue to hold you back until maybe you need to borrow the confidence, maybe you need the Hype file. There's so many tools we've talked about today that could help support you to evolve into owning that identity, but then not holding it so tightly that you're like, well, shoot, because I see this on the other side where I might go sell my business, I might retire, the business might be struggling, and it's time to shut it down. And they're so interconnected and interwoven with their identity and their work or their identity and whatever title they hold over here of daughter, sister, mom, whatever. The thing is, wife, that if those things change or evolve, that it feels like their entire identity collapses and crumbles versus like, yes, I'm this and I'm this, or I was this thing, and now it looks different. And that has really been such an eye opener both for me and for how I witness my clients and help guide them as they're trying to grow and unlock what's holding them back.
Lindsey Epperly [00:55:15]:
That is a way to end because it is so powerful, but also leaves us with so many more questions, I feel like, because that is the journey, right? That's also why we talk about the things that level us that often strip away what we thought was our identity or what we thought was our view of success. And I am so curious. I'm thankful that we have this friendship because I know that we'll have many, many conversations as you become a mother, as you already are a mother, right, as you actually get to witness that identity shift that happens in motherhood. And maybe we'll be able to record one of those future conversations in a year from now to see what you've learned on that journey, because it is such an eye opening one, and I'm grateful to be a witness to it, and I'm grateful to be your friend and so thankful for your time today. Before we go, can you tell everyone the best way to connect with you, to find you? How do you want them to go about making sure they stay in touch with everything Darrah Brustein with a side note of your newsletters are fabulous. Please sign up for the newsletters.
Darrah Brustein [00:56:09]:
I do love to write. The two best ways are instagram at Darrahb. D-A-R-R-A-H-B. Darrah. Like Farah or Darrah Co, where you can get the resource that I mentioned. There's tons of free tools on there you could sign up to get on the list that Lindsey's talking about, which every week I'm trying to send something that will be valuable to you over your email.
Lindsey Epperly [00:56:31]:
So enjoy Canada. I find so much value in it. Thank you, friend.
Darrah Brustein [00:56:36]:
So good to be with you.
Lindsey Epperly [00:56:43]:
And that lovely listeners, brings us to the end of today's episode. We truly hope you enjoyed this deep dive into the world of leadership and professional development with Who Made You the Boss? If you've gained some valuable insights today, we would love to hear from you. Please take a moment, go to your favorite podcast platform, search for Who Made You the Boss and leave us a five star rating and review. That feedback helps us tremendously as we're creating content that resonates and empowers. Stay connected with us, too, by visiting Lindseyepperly.com. And there you can subscribe to our newsletter and ensure you never miss an episode or an exciting update. You can connect with me personally as well on Instagram and LinkedIn, and let's continue the conversation with ourselves and other like minded individuals who are redefining what it means to be the boss of our own lives. So thank you, listen, nurse, for being a part of this journey.
Lindsey Epperly [00:57:31]:
And until next time, remember, you have the power to shape your destiny. So keep leading, keep learning, and most importantly, keep being the boss of your own incredible story.